Asia Sentinel

@ Coolstorm
written by DS , January 28, 2010

The topic is about how Hong Kong - a Special Administrative Region (one country under two systems). If you want to get technical, Hong Kong is to remain as is for 50 years after handover. The Basic Law stipulates that Hong Kong shall enjoy a "high degree of autonomy" in all matters except foreign relations and military defense, which the Olympics doesn’t fall under either.

The way China has treated Hong Kong in this matter is not the way of life here. Can China do whatever it wants? Yes, it can - who is going to stop it? Do you as a mainland Chinese want to be a citizen of a country that forces its will on others against the laws of that country? Breaking the very agreements it signed in 1997? Do you want to be viewed as the world views other superpowers? I find it ironic that on talking with some mainland Chinese how much they “disliked America and how it treated the world (China)” and yet how quickly they seemed to want to replace them and behave as they did.

As for “following the customs of the country you’re in” - please, you’re embarrassing yourself. Do you claim that all Chinese when abroad follow the customs of the country they are in? It’s impossible and unfair to expect that. More irony for you - I’ve never heard more people complain about mainland Chinese than the local Hong Kong people.

Is China so intimidated by Hong Kong and Macau that it needs to do this? You’re a “super-power” - whooped de do. The world is now turning to you, will you repeat the mistakes of previous super powers or are you going to lead by example? The “values” you talk about are already set by the IOC and has nothing to do with what “China can do in it’s own land”. Every other participating country follows an Olympic culture and spirit, but China doesn’t even take the time to try and understand it, let alone follow it, let alone lead by it. Your attitude shows me that while I call Hong Kong my home, China will never be. I hope I’m wrong.

Now that the 2008 Olympics is over, you must be so proud. China shows it's true colours and can be summed up in two girls names: "Lin Miaoke" who lip-synched at the opening ceremony over the voice of "Yang Peiyi" because she wasn't pretty enough. Truly a gesture of all that the Olympics stands for.

...
written by TB Lian , September 23, 2009

we han chinese never complain when we are in a foreign country. there's an old chinese saying "入鄉隨族", which means when you enter a county, follow the customs of the county. china is our country, and we do things in the chinese way in chinese land. live with us and accept our values."

You don't need to complain when in a foreign country because they are not as racist and small-minded as you. That is not true when people come to your country. How to accept 'han' values when it produces racism and small-mindedness?

To know about the race problem in singapore - read this site
written by TB Lian , September 23, 2009

http://according2ed.vox.com/

This guy puts it all in perspective. Much for us chinese to learn.

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written by coolstorm , May 05, 2009

we han chinese never complain when we are in a foreign country. there's an old chinese saying "入鄉隨族", which means when you enter a county, follow the customs of the county. china is our country, and we do things in the chinese way in chinese land. live with us and accept our values. you posters should also realise that your values are also nothing but an opinion. do not act like a judge and assume that you have good values and we don't. we chinese are realists and we value reality over political correctness. do not simply assume that you have got it right to be politically correct. there's not necessarily right or wrong in any values. your view is only a subjective view, and that's it. while in the land of us chinese, you do things the chinese way and respect our values and customs. no one is asking for your approval or the approval of anyone else's in the world. if you don't like it, you don't have to stay.
gweilos will be addressed as gweilos as filipino maids will always be called bun-mui in hk. it DOES NOT matter whether you like it or not. this is our way of life. it's different from yours. sure. do you have a say? no. do we need your approval as to anything in hk where we live and call home? no. can you leave hk if you don't like it and think we are racist assholes? yes, and feel free to do so. do we give a flying damn what you like, prefer, think, experience? NOPE!

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written by Cricket , August 28, 2008

China/HK racist? Try South Korea or even Japan. Haha. They HATE dark skinned people! Well, japan goes through fads but don't let the smiling facades fool you. Just try having a life there. HK is heaven compared to the racism there. Besides, people cannot become Japanese no matter if they marry a Japanese or live there almost their whole lives. It's not wrong. Why? Because unless Japan wishes to change it, Japan is for Japanese. And same should apply for many other countries if they so wish. People have too much a sense of entitlement these days.

Oh and N. Korea will even kill the babies born of Korean and Chinese ancestry. That is a fact.

Leave the Chinese alone
written by Cricket , August 28, 2008

@Barnabaschanski,
'the world is changing, and the time for xenophobic nationalism and wallowing in self-pity is long gone'.

Not yet. I think a little more time is needed still for China and the Chinese to come to terms. Don't forget it has only been a very short time since China first opened up, and shorter still since China as been able to pick herself up after the damage done to her by the West, and become so powerful. Ofcourse outsiders cannot understand this since has never been their collective experience. China's history, triumphs and pains have never been theirs, so it is easy for them to disregard the damage done to China, which actually has not been quite that long ago.
As my father always tells us, it would be shameful to forget all the wrongs done to China as it should be used as a lesson now. A hard lesson which makes Chinese that much more willing to "eat bitter".
And yes the world is changing, but is it always for the better? IMO save this multi-culturism BS for America, where it belongs. China and HK owes the world's people nothing. Doesn't she have too many mouths to feed already? Besides, what is wrong with a homogenous society? As for HK, the Chinese culture is even stronger than on the mainland. Even ABC's have a hard time fitting in, it's not even always about color of skin but about CULTURE. Chinese NEVER complain about not fitting into other people's culture. When they go into other people's lands, they accept the status quo, and instead just stick together and improve themselves and never complain. At the end, who is the strongest for it? The complainers or the doers?

...
written by Tina Fong , August 11, 2008

This is nothing but racism. Justifying racist behavior for past racist actions is absolutely inane, but then what do you expect from a bunch of racists.

MacDonald
written by MacDonald , June 09, 2008

Will suffice to argue, will win all the same the strongest

i love hong kong
written by jeff , April 17, 2008

great city. with over 2 hundred years of humiliation by whites, its understandable how they feel. the west torched and looted many Chinese artifacts.

surprised !
written by white boy in Asia , January 07, 2008

wow ! only recently starting reading this site - amazing to hear the attitudes of some. Words like barbarian,brownies,gweilos etc. Asians are inherently more racsist (including the Chinese) than their new world cousins. This is normal and due mostly to very bad educations and closed societies. It never ceases to amaze me the comments I hear from seemingly educated Asians particularly regarding Australians being racist. I love explaining to them how the Lord Mayor of Melbourne hails from HK and is Hong Kong Chinese and then ask them what chance would I have of becoming a bus driver in their country ?

Greed conquers pride
written by barnabaschanski , November 09, 2007

"Do not forget that Indian troops were part of the aggressors together with the British"

I think I covered this about a zillion posts back. If collaboration with the British is at the core of your racist resentment, how do you cope with Sir Donald Tsang's colonial past. There's never been a shortage of Chinese collaboration with the Brits. Naked greed seems to effortlessly conquer any notion of racial solidarity.

Indian Idol : desidude
written by Wong Fatt Choy , November 09, 2007

Stop being personal. You just want the best of both worlds. "relic". I'm not too sure. Look at the frequent bomb blasts in Indian cities today. Blaming its neighbour won't help. Work of the Islamic terrorists (mind you there are about 100 million Indian Muslims who have a lot to complain about if u care to ask them). Hanuman standing in the Palk Straits. Babri mosque targeted by the BJP. Endless! I shan't comment any more. The Han Chinese doesn't behave like the Ugandans. Racists? Remember Idi Amin. Ugandan Indians were given British residency when they were driven out of Uganda. Likewise the Indians and Whites from Zimbabwe. Prior to the return of HK to the motherland, HK Indians thought they would face the same fate. The British also gave them UK residency. The facts and history speak for themselves. Do not forget that Indian troops were part of the aggressors together with the British that carved out concessions when China was weak and in civil strife.

Mixed Chinese here...
written by darkgold , November 08, 2007

Well even tho I'm proud to be of Chinese blood, and am proud of what my ancestors and also the current Chinese achieve I can tell you now that the Chinese treat their mixed race people like s**t. The half whites have it bad but the half Indians, South East Asians and Blacks have it worse cos we're not even acknowledged as Chinese and seen as turdy wastes of space who don't know how to work as 'hard and constant' as the pure bloods. And even though I get angry at the comments made by other races towards the Chinese I know my kind still aren't going to be ever accepted in the Chinese community. Don't blame us-the problem is in the community itself.

Indian Idol
written by desidude , November 07, 2007

Wong Fatt Choy,

Yes, as barnabaschanski says, every post you make reeks of racism. As for varna, that is certainly a relic of the past which has had a negative legacy on contemporary Indian society- every culture/civilization has some practices which would be considered abhorrent in the contemporary context, and yes, varna is the baggage that India carries. However, varna does not differentiate between Chinese, Indian, Malay, gwelio or whatever. You have a convoluted view of history, as you may never have experienced life (and education)in a democratic and pluralistic society, where the good, the bad and the ugly are on open display through debate and dissent (which sometimes may get acrimonious). As you say, the Chinese are a small minority in India; then what's the probability of someone from such a small minority making it to the top 5 to begin with in a country of over a billion? And with so many south Asians in HK (as you rightly point out), why is it that no one from this community (or most others, for that matter) gets any prominence on the mainstream socio-cultural platforms? Maybe it is the inherent superiority of the Han race which forms the basis of all your arguments? Gweilos are bad, brownies are bad and therefore , only your race is great! Greatness does not come from putting down others. Indeed, you come from as great a race as any other on this planet. It is the individual bigots such as yourself who poison inter-race relations by imposing a racial angle to every argument to demonstrate their (misconceived) superiority. Again, reverting to the main theme of this blog, barring non-Chinese from qualifying for HK's Olympic squad is institutionalising racism. HK is what it is today because of the contribution of the all races that call it home. To discriminate, is ethically criminal- your modern day version of varna.

More racism, more self-pity
written by barnabaschanski , November 05, 2007

"How the gweilos treat an old trishaw rider. Is in the blood"

If it really is in "the blood" how do you explain the condemnation that these idiots are getting back in the UK? If you were right then surely they'd be applauded for their behaviour. Let's not forget that the poor old guy is also a victim of Chinese cultural proclivities for economic systems that are run for the sole benefit of robber baron tycoons. There's no safety net for the old and vulnerable. Ironically, if he was living in the UK he could end his days with some dignity, rather than having to desperately slave until the day he dies.

"The Han Chinese does not practise hagemony or racism"

So what race are you? You're practising racism in every post that you make.

It's revealing that the sanctioning of offensive racial epithets ("gweilos", "brownie savages") and the notion that certain traits are racially predetermined has come solely from what we have to assume are Chinese posters. Not one non-Chinese poster has been crass enough to refer to Chinks. I don't doubt that you might have had personal experience of hostility from people of other races, but, more likely than not, it's a reaction to your ultra-nationalist bogotry and not a reaction to your race.

...
written by Wong Fatt Choy , November 05, 2007

Indian Idol - desidude

(1) What do u want Meiyang Chang to say? He isn't a sour grape. After all, the Chinese are a very, very small minority residing in India unlike the huge number of people from the Indian sub-continent living in Hong Kong (so much for racism?). You don't want to create trouble and be booted out, do you? The walk-out judge has already said what needed to be said then.
(2) The Tibetans living in India. Very interesting. Apparently, you don't know history. Who engineered and orchestrated the Tibetan uprising to secede from China in the early 50s? When it failed miserably India was duty-bound to give refuge to the secessionist refugees. What happened to Sikkim, India's protectorate. Eaten up by its protector!
(3) The Han Chinese does not practise hagemony or racism otherwise the whole of SE Asia and part of the Indian sub-continent would have been Chinese when the powerful Ming fleet swept across the high seas under Admiral Cheng Ho. India is different. Racism has its roots there. Its very foundation is derived from its ancient text. "Varna" i.e. "color" determines all subtly or openly. In as much as one would like to avoid talking abt it, India is potentially a time bomb. You've the harijans, people whom you can't even touch. The rioting sparked off when the Indian Idol was announced. Kalistan, Nagaland . . . the in-built caste system that legislation can do little because it is in the Indian blood to discriminate.
(4) Reflect, brother and be true to oneself. The world has eyes too. The pot doesn't call the kettle black!

UIK Bullies
written by Wong Fatt Choy , November 02, 2007

Happened to see this in the tube. How the gweilos treat an old trishaw rider. Is in the blood. That's when they think they are in control.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB_GoQ-h9Zg

Indian Idol
written by desidude , November 01, 2007

Wong Fatt Choy,

Your take on Meiyang Chang (the Chinese Indian) being booted out of the contest is quite novel. If indeed your hypothesis about Indian racism is correct, then how would you explain the fact that he made it to the top 5 to begin with? Could it be possible that he made it to the top 5 because the audience were appreciative and supportive of someone from an ethnic minority singing in Hindi? You may wish to read his take on the matter 'But once the novelty wears off, then it's my singing they have to judge me on,' (http://newpaper.asia1.com.sg/printfriendly/0,4139,140425,00.html) . I don't want to sound condescending- indeed, he is a great singer. And indeed, the Indian society has been plagued with caste inequalities. But there is no racial bias against the Chinese-at least not to the level that prevails in Hong Kong against South Asians- the experience begins the moment you arrive in HK with a South Asian passport, where the immigration and customs rip you apart, as though you were creature of a lesser order. For all its social ills and inequalities, India has provided refuge to persecuted minorities for centuries. How else did the Chinese get there? Ask the Parsis, ask the Tibetians, ask the Afghans, ask the Burmese minorities that are now fleeing into North East India. There are ample such examples. In Singapore, I don't know if there is such blatant discrimination against South Asians as in Hong Kong- at least I've never had any negative experience. Anyway, the whole point was about Olympic representation and I totally concur that HK's ethnically discriminatory barriers run counter to the Olympic movement and belie its claims to being Asia's World City. The sad truth is that racism, blatant or otherwise is very much alive and kicking in HK and what is worse is that it is now institutionalised in the garb of nationalism, as the Olympic eligibility criteria demonstrate.

Barnabaschanski, couldn't agree more with your comment 'the world is changing, and the time for xenophobic nationalism and wallowing in self-pity is long gone'.

Straight talking
written by barnabaschanski , October 31, 2007

Kurt: "Can someone with accurate figures please remind us how many Chinese were happy to flee their own "people's party" regime and seek refuge with the British in Hong Kong?"

What? You mean that the fence at the top of the New Territories wasn't there to imprison the Chinese population of HK? You're suggesting that people would leave the motherland and willingly enslave themselves to the evil Brit oppressors? Surely not.

Wong Fatt Choy: "the fact that we can now talk straight into your face today and your having to seek a livelihood on Chinese territory tells a lot, isn't it?"

Surprising though this might be to you, my guess is that the vast majority of westerners in HK are delighted that you feel able to level with them. I'd also guess that very few of them would defend the Brit colonial record around the world. As to what gweilos "having to seek a livelihood" in China tells us, well, firstly it tells us we live in a global economy where most people have long since stopped seeing borders. Very few westerners in China are actually in the position of "having to seek a livelihood" there, they're here because of the relatively easy money (which leads on to the second point) and a sense of curiousity (strangely, despite the massive level of human rights abuses, China is perceived as "cool" in the west). Secondly, it tells us that multinational companies find it enormously difficult to hire capable, self-reliant, and imaginative local staff. No corporation willingly relocates overseas staff in China if they don't feel that it's a necessity. They just don't want the extra expense. They're forced to do it because of the crippling effect of "face" in the workplace, coupled with an education system (again, "face" related) that churns out blankly unquestioning graduates incapable of taking responsibility. It's not about race, it's about culture, and many of the well paid westerners in China taking jobs from locals are actually from the Chinese diaspora in North America and Europe.

Wong, the world is changing, and the time for xenophobic nationalism and wallowing in self-pity is long gone. Straight talking cuts both ways.

...
written by Wong Fatt Choy , October 31, 2007

Kurt, I'm not at all interested in semantics. I don't know how many Red Indians or bushmen were decimated by the gweilos. Maybe a hundred or so. Likewise, the handful of Chinese who were decimated and fed opium by the invading, bullying Brits. Neither do I know how much money was siphoned to the UK treasury in the century of colonial rule. Anyway, the fact that we can now talk straight into your face today and your having to seek a livelihood on Chinese territory tells a lot, isn't it?

British cruel to Chinese?
written by Kurt , October 30, 2007

Can someone with accurate figures please remind us how many Chinese were happy to flee their own "people's party" regime and seek refuge with the British in Hong Kong?

Nurture not nature
written by barnabaschanski , October 27, 2007

"The truth hurts, doesn't it?"

Yes, it very often does hurt, but whether there's any "truth" in your cartoon-like portrayal of inbuilt racial traits is another matter.

If I took as simplistic an approach to "race" as you, then my time in Hong Kong would leave me believing in the following basic "truths":

1. Chinese people have no spatial sense in public.

2. Chinese people are cruel to Filipinas.

3. Chinese people have no facilty for abstract thought.

4. Chinese people wear vulgar but very expensive clothes.

5. Chinese people wear vulgar but very expensive watches.

6. Chinese people have a rare form of Tourette Syndrome which forces them to mutter racially charged abuse at people of other races.

7. Chinese people have no sense of humour.

I could go on, and on, and on...

Despite encountering evidence for all of the above traits on a daily basis in HK, I don't believe that these are in any way racially pre-determined. This is because I'm not a boneheaded racist. HK is a mean-spirited mediocre backwater, but the way that people behave there is down to nurture not nature. As a city it represents the very worst values of Chinese culture coupled with the very worst values of Brit colonial culture. It's time for it to change...

Charade
written by Wong Fatt Choy , October 26, 2007

Ryan,

The truth hurts, doesn't it?

...
written by ryan , October 26, 2007

wong you are a disgrace. you don't even deserve my attention

Gweilos - genetically degenerate
written by barnabaschanski , October 26, 2007

"Gweilos...Their agenda and motives are constant - sex, dominance, money, etc."

So, there you have it, "gweilos" in a nutshell - priapic, bullying, greedy. Not a hint of diversity. Every trait a constant. Just like the "brownies", damned to predetermined characteristics by the colour of their skin.

Racism, a dictionary definition: the belief that there are characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to each race.

Indian Idol
written by Wong Fatt Choy , October 26, 2007

Did anyone watch the Indian idol? An Indian of Chinese descent amongst the top 5 finalists was surprisingly booted out. He had the support of the live audience and the judges. Most people expected him to be the INDIAN IDOL 2007! What happened? One of the judges staged a walk-out in front of the camera. The rest is history. Racism is deep-rooted in India. In the ancient texts "varna" meaning "color" is openly manifested in the caste and color conscious Indian people. There are the touch-not i.e untouchables. Imagine when the Indian idol was announced, people rioted. Why? Simply because opposing races can't accept him. What a joke! So, my friend, if they can't even accept another fellow Indian what more an Indian of Chinese descent!

Hypocrisy
written by Wong Fatt Choy , October 26, 2007

Ryan,

What has the gweilos done to the Red Indians in America? What has the gweilos done to the aboriginal bushmen of Australia? Today the Chinese people are longer fighting among themselves and smoking opium. The qweilos can't talk down on them though they very much like to in their heart. Many like you have even to make a living in Chinese territory. Gwelos will only bully if they perceive the other party is weak. Remember, after the victorious Falklands war Margaret Thatcher confronted the then paramount leader of China for Hong Kong's lease to be extended to god knows when. Then, a much stronger China firmly and politely told her off and guess what. She tripped and nearly fell down the stairs on her way out. Ryan, the China are not stupid people. Gweilos are transparent to them. Their agenda and motives are constant - sex, dominance, money, etc.

...
written by ryan , October 26, 2007

Your the bloody idiot and I am gonna tell you why.

The Chinese in Singapore look very far down at the Indians-just because there is no mass-violence doesn't mean that there is not there. Chinese are very good at alienating and excluding other races from ever being legitimate members of their community. If you don't agree, fine.


You simply cannot keep blaming white people for what happened hundreds of years ago. Yes, it was bad-but you can't blame white people in HK now for what happened a long time ago by long time dead people. Have you yourself ever not been able to enter a park because you were Chinese? That would be like me, a jewish Hong Konger, blaming ever German person for the holocaust. You can't blame people for things that people who looked like them did in History.

I lived in Australia for 3 years when I went to Uni. I never saw anyone ever spit in a Chinese persons face. Chinese get fairly special treatment when it came to the University too-they were often graded easier and cut more slack. They were also able to get into uni easier than Australians because they were international students. China and HK could learn a lot from the west in terms of Race relations-If you look at the Pacific rim countries, Australia is probably the most tolerant according to Nobel Peace Prize Laureate Jose Ramos-Horta from East Timor! Chinese do not face violence in Australia. Or The US, or any other western country, as they do in Malaysia or Indonesia.

No Matter what you think, this move by the IOC is extremely racist and exclusionary. Period. There is no way even to debate that. And one more thing, White people did not start racism in China, it has existed for thousands of years. The Chinese creation myth of the divine creator throwing away the burnt and undercooked people he made before keeping the perfect yellow one is testament to that. You have to stop blaming young white people who had nothing to do with history and start looking at yourself in the mirror.

The context is clear
written by barnabaschanski , October 26, 2007

"Guys, don't be an idiot & pretend that you do not understand under what context I posted my previous rant."

Well, if anybody had any doubts before as to the context of your ugly rant, I believe - given your repeated use of the phrase "brownie savages" - all has now become crystal clear. The context is that of an unambiguous racist.

Chinese Racism?
written by Not -In-My-Name , October 26, 2007

Hay, Ryan & barnabaschanski:

Guys, don't be an idiot & pretend that you do not understand under what context I posted my previous rant.

There are of course instances of racism everywhere & they are simply unavoidable anyway given the diversities of races on earth. What I am trying to stress is that all these incidents are merely manifested as individual/personal prejudices but never expressed as institutionalised state-santioned pratices. Chinese never invented the notorious slavery, colonialism, apartheid, racial segregation, white Australian policy so on & so forth. Hence, we shall never be labelled as racist/reversedly-racist as what is being perpetrated by the whites or brownie Malays.

What is wrong with calling the Malays/Indonesians brownie savages when these people can literally/blatantly engage in institutionalised rapes & open slaughter of innocent ethnic Chinese minority of their own citizens? For all you know, it is merely an expression of convulsion/outrage at their barbaric exesses which they first bring upon us without our prior provocations. The same is true with the gwei-lo stigma. It represents a bitter legacy of hundreds of years of White subjugations of Chinese since our defeat at the Opium War & it reflected an off-shoot of silent resistance at white humiliations typified by those white concessions sprouting all over China & signs like 'dogs & Chinese not allowed' right on our own soil in the previous century. Gwei-lo, in essence, now does not really convey any racial hatred in its puritanical term but it just accidentally becomes a convenient word to describe a certain community in HK. Whether or not it sounds repulsive is all in the eye of the beholder.

Please don't be so naive as to let one small instance of parent disowning one's daughter for wishing to marry outside one's own racial group to blind you into alleging the other guy as inherently racist per se. As a matter of fact, this scenario can happen & target any community anywhere in the world & you are being plain silly just to qoute one example to blanket the whole community as evil. Chinese & Indians really get along well in M'sia/S'pore all these years. In fact, it has become an unwritten rule that on most instances, the ceremonial head of state, i.e. the President, or the much-honoured Foreign Minister of S'pore are always reserved for ethnic Indian/Sri Lankan S'poreans. Don't believe me? Have you ever heard of Devan Nair & Raja Ratnam? If you don't, go read up on S'pore's history! As for Malaysia, there is not an instance of racial conflict/antagonism between Indian/Chinese since the nation was establised almost 50 years ago as opposed to Malay/Chinese or Indian/Malay. In fact, most opposition figures in M'sia are predominently Chinese & Indians united in their common struggle against Malay racism/chauvinism.

The white people are perhaps the most hypocritical of all races in the world. They are the true inventors & perpetrators of racisms against all other races not-of-the-white kind on earth & yet they are the ones who have the cheeks now to go around the world preaching & on some instances forcing down the throats of others on their brand of benevolence, human rights, democracy & all those s**ts! What an extreme irony!

Evil gweilos and savage brownies...
written by barnabaschanski , October 26, 2007

"Racism is the last label the world can ever hope to stick onto us the Chinese...we Chinese are the real-life victims of racism the world over from the evil Whiteman to those barbaric savages (brownie Malays"

One of the great things about the internet is that it gives people around the world a direct insight into the current thinking of so many Chinese people regarding themselves and other races. A lot of overseas journalists based in China would like to write about the shocking level of xenophobic nationalism that's such a feature of modern China, but, sadly, they can never get it past their editors due to the commercial ambitions of their parent companies.

...
written by ryan , October 25, 2007

And just so you know, Chinese and Indians do not get along well together in Singapore/Malaysia. A friend of mine in Singapore had an Indian boyfriend and her mother almost disowned her. Why don't you ask a Singaporean Indian if the Chinese are racist?

...
written by Ryan , October 25, 2007

Yeah..ok-its going to be really easy to get the word "racist" to stick to "chinese"-and thank you for helping us do it! You not only called Malay's "Brownie barbarian savages", but insist on still calling white people Gweilos, and for that we should be lucky? I should actually thank you-it is because of people like you that the world will start seeing how racist Chinese can be. Why else would you be upset with Hong Korn-raised white people, such as myself? The only explanation is that you are a racist.

Chinese Racism?
written by Not In My Name , October 25, 2007

Racism is the last label the world can ever hope to stick onto us the Chinese.

Throughout history, we Chinese are the real-life victims of racism the world over from the evil Whiteman to those barbaric savages (brownie Malays) in Malaysia & Indonesia. Even up to todate, ethnic Chinese are still subject to savaged institutionalised racism in Malaysia through their so-called "Bumiputra" policy which seeks to obstruct Chinese advancement in academic, economic, political & other social aspects of live in their adopted nation. Indonesia even goes to the extreme of conducting constant pogroms against their Chinese minority as a matter of state apparatus of intimidation. Australia practised the 'White' Australian policy right up to the later half of the 20th Century in which one White legislator was even quoted as saying two 'WONG's' just did not add up to one 'White' in denying the Chinese legal standing to stay in Australia. Right now in India, potential Chinese immigrants can never hope to obtain residence permits even though some are 2nd or even 3rd generation local-born Chinese. The same goes for intending Chinese immigrants to Korea & Japan. Vietnam purged all ethnic Chinese from Cholon in South Vietnam after the communist victoty & shooed all ethnic Vietnamese Chinese out to the savaged South China Sea as the imfamous boat-people in the 1980's. The list of Chinese indignations can go on & on......

For all you know, Han Chinese are the most tolerant specy in the entire world. We are totally non religious-we don't hate the Muslims like what the white Americans/Europeans do. Christians are often welcomed ( some may say we may regret it later) so much so that that some of our own people even begin to naively identify their conversions as a fashionable fad just like modernisation & globalisation (ill-conceived indeed!). Foreigners ( especially those from the Anglo-Saxon nations) are treated like 1st class guests ( or rare precious specy) & accorded more privileged positions than our own people by some of our ignorant brethrens who are not exposed, ill-informed or have never travelled, let alone lived overseas in their entire lives. No where in the world have minorities enjoy more privileges than in China where they are not subjected to the strict one-child policy, enter university with a corresponding lower grade, enjoy large amount of special budget allocations from the Central Govt, suffer virtually no bar on their cultures, languages & unique way of life ( ask any Malaysian Chinese how the barbaric Malays restrict the use of Chinese characters in schools & public places, ban the lion dance on public display except during festive season, withhold tax payers' funding of all things Chinese & impose colour bar on Chinese in Govt civil service recruitments & promotions etc....).

For those who complain about Chinese calling you 'gwei-los', you must count your lucky star already for us not calling you 'say gwei-los' ( damn you whiteman) or having resorted to spitting/throwing water/swearing in 4-lettered words at your faces like what we Chinese constantly encountered on Australian streets in Brisbane or Sydney or having been ridiculed by some white kids who pull their eyes (to simulate slit-eye gesture) while cursing/swearing aloud in extremely abusive language like 'chinks, chinks, chinks....'.

For those South Asians who encountered racial abuses by our fellow Chinese, I say is is utterly wrong indeed & they are mostly pepetrated by some ignorant, low-cultured Chinese who may not have any international exposure. Chinese actually have no quarel with Indians. In fact, Sino-Indian harmony can best be illustrated in countries like S'pore/Malaysia where their common loath/hatred of the Malays bind them ever closer together. Chinese must forever be reminded of the all-weather friendship between Pakistan & China & therefore abuse against the Pakistanis must absolutely be vehemently condemned.

Opium, Brits, and lashings of self-pity...
written by barnabaschanski , October 25, 2007

"The Brits...forcibly addicting the Chinese people to opium"

And this is justification for discrimination against people of non-Chinese ethnicity in Hong Kong in 2007? Even if you leave aside the fact that there was no shortage of Chinese collaboration with the Brits in an effort to personally profit (Donald Tsang's antecedents go way back), isn't it time to drop the self-pity and deal with the realities and moral responsibilities of the modern age? China's past and present isn't so pure that it can realistically blame every modern day malaise on the UK and Japan.

Who have the Chinese suffered most under?
written by Michael , October 25, 2007

Great to see an enlightened debate about who has been cruellest to the Chinese. Well, surprise, surprise: not even the Japanese managed to kill as many Chinese as the Great Helsman, Mao, himself.

...
written by Wong Fatt Chpy , October 25, 2007

The Brits brought untold miseries to the then weak Chinese people. Bully is the right word. Morality? Apart from forcibly addicting the Chinese people to opium for Chinese tea and porcelain these barbarians looted and took away the ancient treasures from China. Go see them at the British museum today. And they have the cheek to put on display such relics and antiques created by somebody else. What they could not carry away from China then they heartlessly razed to the ground like the immaculate Summaer Palace in 1860.

From collaboration to patriotism...
written by barnabaschanski , October 23, 2007

"So what we have is people who weren't affected by the British colonization treating other people...like s**t"

It's even more interesting than that. We have the bleakly laughable spectacle of HK being led by a born-again super-patriot who just a few short years ago was happy to get on his knees before Prince Charles to receive his knighthood for services to the Brit colonialists. One of the justifications that HK patriots have made to me regarding their contemptuous treatment of south Asians in the city is that these people "collaborated" with the Brit oppressors. When you ask them if they have a problem with Sir Donald Tsang (still on his knees, only now shoeshining the Beijing boot) for the same offense of collaboration with opium pushing Brits they go strangely quiet...

...
written by ryan , October 23, 2007

OK fine I stepped in it a bit. I guess we both agree that in the history of the HK, yes some bad and exploitive things were done. But that in no way justifies treating every non-chinese in HK as dirt/s**t. A lot of the really racist people in HK were never even around for that stuff anyway. So what we have is people who weren't affected by the British colonization treating other people-who also didn't have anything to do with that occupation-like s**t. And the worst part is that the government is encouraging it!

Read the thread
written by barnabaschanski , October 23, 2007

Err, read the thread Ryan. I think you'll find I'm on the same general side as you...

...
written by ryan , October 23, 2007

I do understand Irony. But your right, I have been in HK too long, 17 out of 23 years, so yes I am a bit bitter about being called racist names. I don't like being called a Gweilo by anyone because it is exclusionary and demeaning. Chinese don't like being called Chinks for the same reason. And it is a good reason.

Gweilos
written by barnabaschanski , October 23, 2007

Ryan, I thought gweilos understood irony. You must have spent too long in HK...

...
written by Ryan , October 23, 2007

And you shouldnt call us gweilos-

Modern Racism vs. History
written by Ryan , October 23, 2007

Wow Thank you for the very informative history lesson. But how does that justify racism now in HK against anybody who isnt Chinese?
It still is wrong. You can't blame non-chinese residents for what happened in the past. We didn't do it, it isnt our fault. We deserve the same respect as anyone in HK. We deserve to be part of the community just like Chinese are. And by the way, foreigners have also done many good things for HK in the past

Opium
written by barnabaschanski , October 23, 2007

For the benefit of those unfamiliar with discourse in modern day China, it's worth reiterating that every unsavoury act - from the occupation of Tibet to a Filipina dipping her knickers into Indignant's soup - can be directly traced to the Opium Wars and the despicable behaviour of gweilos generally and the Brits specifically.

Plank in the Eye
written by Wong Fatt Choy , October 23, 2007

The British forced opium upon the poor defenceless Chinese masses. After a century of funding the UK treasury and when the colony was about to return to the motherland, the poor Hongkongers were denied entry into the UK for residency though they carried British passports. What have the now endangered Red Indians and bushmen got to say about racism? "Hypocisy!"

Barbaric AND racist
written by barnabaschanski , October 23, 2007

"Two of our previous maids 'ran away' without their passports. Of course, you would say who would believe that these poor maids would 'run away' for no apparent reasons other than mistreatments from the employer"

Yes, who would believe it? I certainly don't. Outside of the racially distorted environment of HK I doubt anybody sentient would believe it.

"We also have maids who stole our money and jewelry"

Man, you've sure had some rough treatment from those evil maids.

"There have been reports of maids dipping their undies into the food prepared for the employers which were captured on CCTV. Whose actions are barbaric?"

In this case the actions of both are barbaric, although you have to ask what kind of degrading treatment makes someone want to dip their underwear into food. You also have to question the employers who feel the need to install CCTV surveillance. Is this strictly legal? Don't the maids have a reasonable expectation of privacy? It conjures up images of seedy guys getting off on footage of their maids dressing and undressing. Is this what you do to unwind after a hard day in the office? You really aren't doing yourself any favours here.

"Anyway, please dont pretend to be ignorant to think that these maids are angels"

As you're well aware, I haven't said that maids are angels. They're just ordinary women who through a geographical accident of birth are forced to live a demeaning life pandering to the unreasonable demands of people like yourself.

"When maids misbehaved and are punished for being so, dont labeled these as barbarism or racism."

You reveal so much of yourself here. Misbehaved? Punished? It's like you're talking about a dog that you're training (although, as I've already said, you probably treat your pet poodle with way more respect). I'm not actually saying it's "barbarism or racism", I'm saying it's barbarism AND racism - the one leading directly from the other.

Personally, I'm not sure why you can't scrub your own toilet and wash your own rancid underwear, but, if you really need to employ maids, here's a little tip that'll make your life a whole lot better (in every sense): Treat them as human beings and they'll treat you as a human being.

Finally, thank you for illustrating my point about the level of racism in HK far more eloquently than I could have ever hoped to do.

Ignorance
written by Indignant , October 22, 2007

Two of our previous maids 'ran away' without their passports. Of course, you would say who would believe that these poor maids would 'run away' for no apparent reasons other than mistreatments from the employer. We also have maids who stole our money and jewelry. There have been reports of maids dipping their undies into the food prepared for the employers which were captured on CCTV. Whose actions are barbaric? Anyway, please dont pretend to be ignorant to think that these maids are angels. When maids misbehaved and are punished for being so, dont labeled these as barbarism or racism.

Racism self pity=HK
written by barnabaschanski , October 22, 2007

You poor thing Indignant. It must have been deeply traumatic to have your maid leave you just "because she didn't like the food"...

Do you really expect people to believe that a young woman from Indonesia or The Philippines, desperate enough to earn that she leaves her home country, would walk out on you for no other reason than different taste in food? You complain about racism towards "Chinese people around the world" not being highlighted by the media, but ignore the fact that in the majority of European states, and in Canada and the USA, there is legal protection for Chinese (and other races) against discrimination. There's no chance of effective anti-racism legislation being introduced in HK because the primary abusers of other races are the powerful and wealthy. In the west, the standard profile of those who fall foul of anti-racism laws are young working-class white men lashing out in public at immigrants. In HK the profile is very different: the great, the good, and the utterly mediocre middle-class, bully, abuse, and demean their domestic staff every single day in the privacy of their own homes. The typical middle-class HK family treats their miniature schnauser with more respect than they do the woman who cleans their toilet, washes their clothes, and brings up their kids.

It's way past time that China dropped the self-pity and realised that racism is outrageous whether you're the victim or the perpetrator.

Bias
written by Indignant , October 21, 2007

Barbaric treatments of the foreign maids on a daily basis? Our maid left us because she didnt like the food that we ate. Chinese around the world endured racial and religious discriminations for decades yet there were harldy any media reports highlighting their plight. Now that China is trying to have its glory hosting the Olympic games, there are many red- and green-eyed monsters out there trying to smear its great efforts.

World City?
written by barnabas chanski , October 18, 2007

The level of nationalism and racism in Hong Kong increases year on year. The implications for Olympic eligibility fade into insignificance in comparison to the absolutely barbaric treatment that HK's Filipino and Indonesian domestic are subjected to on a daily basis. There's racism everywhere, but what makes HK such a dismal place is the total lack of reflection and debate on the issue. Asia's World City? I don't think so, more like Asia's Xenophobic Backwater...

...
written by Dean Andrews , October 17, 2007

Of course....when will the rest of the world wake up and realize that a contemporary China is a racist nation, even towards its own national minorities. Excluding those without Chinese blood is in line with the greater nationalism that dominates China and its politics--we are great because we are Chinese and led by the communist party--otherwise, we would still be like (name your country, excluding India).