| Is Iran More Democratic Than Thailand? |
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| Written by M.L. Nattakorn Devakula | |
| Wednesday, 24 June 2009 | |
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Page 1 of 2  A painful comparison for the "thinking mind"
When angry demonstrators recently took to the streets in Iran, the seething masses claiming that they had been robbed of true democracy recalled recent protest scenes in Thailand. An obvious and dangerous trend in international politics is that when any demagogue-type politician wins a landslide election, the opposition claims vote fraud and in many cases sends its supporters into the streets to stir unrest. Nobody has yet appointed a color to Iran's street revolution, but the storyline of angry supposedly pro-democracy demonstrators is now familiar, and in many instances represents a graver threat to democracy than the supposedly authoritarian leaders they are protesting against. Vladimir Putin's election triumphs in Russia have been widely lamented by opposition critics and foreign media, who have claimed he aims to become a new age Czar or latter-day Stalin bent on reestablishing the Soviet empire. Hugo Chavez's election wins in Venezuela have likewise been lamented by some outside the country due to his populism and export of anti-American policies in Latin America. But it is in Thailand, where angry street mobs have for the past three and a half years challenged the legitimacy of successive democratically elected governments, that the structural parallels are starkest with Iran. Former Thai premier Thaksin Shinawatra, who notched two thumping election victories and a legally contested third, was criticized by his detractors for establishing a parliamentary dictatorship through his consolidation of power and was toppled in a 2006 coup. In a true democracy, an elected leader does not lose his legitimacy just because he is opposed by powerful minority forces, nor do those forces have the right to extra-constitutionally remove a democrat leader. Whether Iran may be considered a functioning democracy depends on the presence of functioning accountability mechanisms able to challenge the ruling establishment led by Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. Iranian voters head to the polls every four years to elect their president and 290 members of a unicameral legislature. However candidates for parliament or president are vetted by a 12-member Guardian Council that allows the religious establishment to decide who runs in elections. Iran's Guardian Council is dominated by loyalists to the Supreme Leader, who directly appoints six of the body's 12 members. The other six are appointed by the elected parliament, but with choices pre-screened by the head of the judiciary, who is also appointed by the Supreme Leader. In effect the Guardian Council, which plays the role of deciding the country's electoral choices, is directly answerable to the Supreme Leader. The Guardian Council's veto powers are in some ways analogous to the situation in Thailand. For instance, Thailand's election commission is essentially appointed by a group of judges. The presidents of three main courts, two other judges selected by another group of judges, and two elected politicians from the ruling coalition and the opposition make up the Thai commission's selection committee. The five-to-two domination by unelected judges, officially appointed by an unelected head of state over those with democratic accountability make for an undemocratic screening process dominated by the conservative legal establishment. Hence the role of judges in Thailand, in some ways, mirrors that of the Guardian Council in Iran. But Iran's Guardian Council is not its most undemocratic institution; that role is reserved for Khamenei, who has the power to appoint the heads of the judiciary, state-owned broadcast networks and the armed forces; he also has final say over defense and foreign policy as commander-in-chief. Iran's Supreme Leader wields powers akin to those of an ancient monarch or modern day dictator. It is Khamenei's unelected status that is behind the opinion that Iran needs to go through a political revolution to undo the excesses of its 1979 religious revolution. It is thus interesting, from a pro-election perspective, that the top governing structure of Iran's Islamic theocracy has its democratic aspects ‑ at least in the electoral sense. While Iran's Supreme Leader is widely portrayed in the mainstream media as an unelected dictator, Khamenei spent decades moving up the ranks as a religious scholar. Through his perceived learnedness among peers and senior title holders, he earned a coordinating political role from influential clerics. He later served eight years as president under Ayatollah Khomeini, the leader of the 1979 revolution, proving his leadership skills, religious expertise and devoutness. With all that in mind, prior to becoming Supreme Leader, Khamenei's qualifications were put to an 86-member Assembly of Experts for consideration. Comments
(84)
No, both ruling elites suck the country dry
written by GERD , August 11, 2009
both countries are founded on ruling elites which have have delevoped effective systems to keep the people silent , poor and uneducated. Any change to that policy is seen as a threat to the country and surpressed with the millitary force.
Votes: +1
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Sad!
written by Lanna Loyalist , July 09, 2009
The debate in Thailand really has got down to this level of name calling and abuse. The reason is simple. In under 3 years time there will have to be another election (unless His Highness General Anuporn decrees otherwise) and whatever arguaments the Abhisit government put up, they will lose. His party will do quite well because he is busy trying to buy off soldiers, government workers, teachers and the like with blatant bribes - like the 2,000 baht 'reflationary' gifts, but he will still lose. Because the majority in this country are kept impoverished by the ruling élite: the judiciary, most academics, the military, what we must call the 'Royal Party'- including the likes of Ge. Prem. and big business. What have these all got in common? They are almost exclusively ethnic Chinese. That is the binding that holds them together. What they hated most about Thaksin was that eh was one of their own stepping outside of their unwritten rules for oppressing the Thais. One day the native Thais will rise up......unless they change their ways, drag them up out of poverty and cede politicla power to them. An uncomfotable choice but one they must make if they are to avoid what happened to the Chinese elsewhere in SEA.
Votes: +5
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Come on
written by Shan , July 03, 2009
Disaster,
Votes: +0
"well done,..." was - tongue-in-cheek - ironic - referential to being skilled in something brainless and self-serving Damn, now I revealed the secret  report abuse
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written by StopHate&HateCrimes , July 03, 2009
Arnold Porky, Jews don't take pork either. Your comment is blatantly racist. You're confusing Iran's politics & Islam. Try some koshered or halal meat, might be good for your rotting brains.
Votes: +0
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Porky Cleans Out Jihadists
written by Arnold , July 03, 2009
The day and time& of reckonig has finally come for the jihadists.
Votes: +0
Pass them the swine flu and Porky stays INSIDE them. No more suicide bombings of innocent women & children for a twisted cause for now the gates of heaven is perpertually shut to them. Immunisation or vaccination is also a means of "dehalaling" the jihadists as cultured Porky virus is deliberately put into their blood stream. report abuse
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written by Disaster , July 02, 2009
Daft is indeed daft. Well done and rubbish in the same breath? Nattakorn is an embarrassment to Thailand. How on earth did the editors decide to publish this? Being provocative for the sake of, and for vanity does not enrich the mind at all. Disappointed that the editors are not more discerning.
Votes: +1
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daft
written by Shan , July 01, 2009
"Is Iran more democratic than Thailand?"
Votes: +0
The headline is a perfect example of "framing an issue", Khun Nattakorn has obviously paid attention of how the Bush administration has vilified its enemies. Well done, Khun Nattakorn. But you, asiasentinel editor-in-chief, have no excuse. The piece is rubbish and hopefully you know it. report abuse
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give me a break
written by JJ , July 01, 2009
I was just going to say... the color is green, I mean C'MON. But ND has certainly done SOME homework... how else would he know how the Iranian government operates? The problem is that he only researched topics he felt would support his argument, allowing his overall ignorance and bias to show through. BTW, Thailand is clearly more democratic than Iran.
Votes: -2
The fact that a blatantly corrupt (and even his supporters acknowledge his corruption), yet democratically elected ruler was toppled by protesters (er, by a coup, that is), and then found guilty of crimes by judges who wouldn't dare indict him during his iron-fisted rule, does not mean Thailand is run by mob-rule. Furthermore, no other prime ministers were toppled in such a way. The courts and not the mobs removed the next elected prime minister, and Abhisit, although supported by a minority, was democratically installed by a parliament elected by the people. Please take your sophistry elsewhere, ND. Maybe you'll be appreciated in Iran. report abuse
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written by Iran , July 01, 2009
The colour of Iran's revolution is green. ML needs to do some basic homework. This is an off-the-charts comparison like comparing mango sticky rice with Iranian rugs. And oh, a so-called democrat would drop the ML. Hypocrites should not be given space to air their nonsense.
Votes: +2
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written by Real Demon , June 30, 2009
Hey Royalist Thai, I don't like your comment about blue daimon. Many people blames yellow-shirt for their irrational comments ,so why you did the same like them. Don't do this unless you have any back-up evidences other than rumours in underground websites?
Votes: -1
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the truth
written by Tony Peng , June 29, 2009
What I can see,whennever there is any commentator comments about Thaksin, there will have Thaksin supporter react aganist the comment and attacks the monarchy eventhough those comment does not relate to the monarchy at all. I can see the logic of the relationship between the author , Thaksin supporter and also those who does not like the monarchy. Interesting!
Votes: -2
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ROYAL ขโมย
written by Royalist Thai - To the Thai Nation , June 28, 2009
Indeed they are the protector of the Blue Diamond throne. SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! Royal ขโมย.
Votes: -1
This nation is still paying for your sins. Why cunt you just stop your shamelessness and and allow the real Thais to face the world without shame? Let's just ask ourselves a simple question why Saudi Arabia still look at us with disdain? There is no hope for us all as long as we're all still stained by this Royal ขโมย sin. I guess it's hopeless for us all as it had become more blatant with pubic display of the Blue Diamond. Really no shame at all you Royal ขโมย. However as long as they do not need to answer to anyone there is no hope for us all. report abuse
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Why the yellow-shirts are so angry at this article
written by Somsak , June 27, 2009
The real reason the yellow-shirts have their panties in such a bunch is because they claim to be protecting the palace, and Pluem is closer to the palace than they could ever be. The yellows are a bunch of เจ๊กที่อยากเป็นจ้า
Votes: +6
ว. How dare a real royal rebukes them! For a eye-opener, talk to a yellow-shirt about Princess Sirindhorn and you'd be shocked at the hatred they have to her. In reality, the yellow-shirts aren't protectors of the palace - they're protectors of the Queen, the Prince, and Prem. report abuse
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Bleum and Jakrapob Penkeer
written by Prasong , June 27, 2009
Bleum was cheering for Jakrapob at the FCCT when a scathing attack on the monarchy was unleashed. I wonder why this guy puts ML before his name?
Votes: -5
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Thailand's predicament is way too polarized --------------------------------------------------
written by Heide , June 27, 2009
Why is Asia Sentinel suddenly flooded with PAD profanity?
Votes: +9
The PADs need to grow up and respect opposing views and opinions. They need to stop swearing and end their pathetic tantrum- throwing sessions. The PADs must stop acting like a bunch of goons and thugs as they have become a national and global embarassment - oh and that goes to their supporters hiding in the dark. To the supporters of the PAD = do us Thais a big favor and teach your goons some manners! Good grief! report abuse
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Maybe education is a culprit
written by Yoda , June 26, 2009
In Thailand, the education motto is 'Studying likes Hill myna and parrot'.
Votes: -3
The more education degree, the more eccentric, the less logic they are using. Thai PhD bulls**tting things outside his/her field, yet Thai still believe it. This is why some Thai only can repeat other people words like broken records. However, though it's just a broken record, I'm very glad that Yellow shirt and Democrat party supporters expose their opinion here. In fact, I would like them to express more. The more they express, The less time is need to help world understand them. For past several comments, Isn't it clear that which group has intellects. And which group just behave like hysteric woman. However, let me say this. Those yellow believe that Thaksin causes all fault in Thailand. They were brainwash as far as that extent. In fact, I quite sure about this. Yellows shirts might believe that Thaksin is Jesus of Siam. They want to put Thaksin on the cross so he will died for paying sin (and debt) they commit. Well if you believe i write it on a whim, you should read New testament. Matthew - 4:24-25 - 23:6-7 - 23:27-28 - 12:14 Luke Lk - 23:4-5 - 23:13-16 Mark - 15:6-15 report abuse
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Wow2
written by Rodent , June 25, 2009
Anyway, this website is reserve to those who READ and THINK and all those Ann, ThaiComEng, Ty etc. whoever is ranting below my comment, while claiming that those poor red from the N and NE is too stupid to vote, you people should, look into the mirror, be ashamed, and never come post here where the intellects want to discuss something with logic and reason.
Votes: +8
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Wow
written by Rodent , June 25, 2009
After almost 2 years in asiasentinel, I'm surprise that there are so many amateur audiences here. Anyway, the that Natakorn want na make is that IRAN HAS THE BODY OF POWER TO CHECK THE HEAD OF STATE POWER AND THAILAND DONT!!!
Votes: +1
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written by purethaidemocracy , June 25, 2009
It is an apt comparison that many are thinking out loud, but I can hardly believe the commentaries Khun Plueme received! To rant such vulgarities like these, do you use these type of languages and read New Mandala or do you even read period? You guys really are worse than those so-called illiterate REDS.
Votes: +5
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written by ta , June 25, 2009
Let's face it, in both countries (Iran and Thailand), the minority refuses to recognize the will of the majority. This is a bad sign for future democracy. I think politic in Thailand is quite messy than in Iran. Perhaps, Thailand has something that is very special but 'ugly phenomenon'!
Votes: +9
Thank you for the article. report abuse
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written by PADbanger , June 25, 2009
Maybe Thaksin is a big liar, But Sondhi limthongkul
Votes: +6
and his ASTV - Sh1t Broadcasting Television are not any better. Maybe the Red Shirts are just illiterate and vote-buying poors from north and north-eastern, But ultra-hypocrite PAD, so-called the urband-elite fanatic bangkokian yellow shirts, are not any better as education, fame, and social status doesn't help them at all, just look at their filthy WORDS here. report abuse
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written by PADbanger , June 25, 2009
Maybe Thaksin is a big liar, But Sondhi limthongkul
Votes: +5
and his ASTV - Sh1t Broadcasting Television are not any better. Maybe the Red Shirts are just illiterate and vote-buying poors from north and north-eastern, But ultra-hypocrite PAD, so-called the urband-elite fanatic bangkokian yellow shirts, are not any better also as education, fame, and social status doesn't help them at all, just look at their filthy WORDS here.  report abuse
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ไม่แน่จิงนี่หว่า, Lowly rated comment [Show]
The right question
written by kanotellbecoziliveinbkk , June 25, 2009
Dear Albert Park and Yoda
Votes: +2
When you mention the commentator(S), you are wrong. It's only one guy in the Ministry of Propaganda who wrote all of them under different nicknames. Now, Yoda, I do not know you and I don't know if you are important in Bangkok or not. Anyway, you have guts and you could easily be sued under the lese majeste laws. Your question which are the only real ones we have to ask ourselves could be seen as offensive. xxxx I censored myself as I'm affraid the Minsitry could find me xxxx Its a shame to see this puppet Abhisit, ready to make war to Cambodia for reasons he even does not understand (he's too young to care about Preah Vihar). The comments today in Nation and BKK post are very severe against this poor PM, regarding this issue. It looks like your share ideas with these analysts. They mention "blind nationalists". I'm happy you do exist and you do write because, if not, we could thinks all the Thais are as useless as Abhisit. Anyway and fortunately, I know thousands of bright Thai people but they do not write in newspapers. report abuse
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written by lie Demon , June 25, 2009
if democracy from red-shirt, Thaksin and shinawat et al mean Thaksin takes all, Minority wrong, Thailand may be the prototype country of that type of democracy, hell
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written by Real Demon , June 25, 2009
If democracy from yellow-shirt ,ASTV/Manager et al means Minority Rules Majority Wrong ,Thailand may be the prototype country of that type of democracy.
Votes: -2
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Pleum is wrong, Lowly rated comment [Show]
ASTV/Manager Illiterates out in force
written by Pluem is right , June 25, 2009
It is hilarious to read all the responses from The Manager crowd attacking Pluem and trying to write in English.
Votes: +15
You people are illiterate and a national embarrassment to all Thai people. You can't even think straight. And you have the balls to say that poor people from Isaan are too stupid to vote. Look in the mirror, yellow shirts. You don't have one brain cell between you. You should read your own writings. You are like machines who just repeat Sondhi Lim mantras over and over again like trained dogs. Dogs, leave the intellectuals alone and go lick the feet of your master, Sondhi Lim. He is waiting to give you your next orders. report abuse
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Dear Albert Park
written by Yoda , June 25, 2009
Agree, They were brainwashed with several broken records so they can only repeat that. Too bad so sad, even Buddism is Thailand's national religion still they didn't study it well. In Buddism, actions that cause Anantarika-karma (Karma that cause infinite punishment) are
Votes: +11
1. Creating a schism in the Sangha. 2. Kill a Arhat (or parents). 3. Hurt the Buddha. However, there are one karma that's more catastrophic than Anantarika-karma. It's Miccha-ditthi(wrong view). Causes of Miccha-ditthi are 1. Paratoghosa -literally, the sound from outside. Without consideration and using wisdon, solely let others influence your thought or advertise 'sound from outside' without consideration (gossip or blame others) 2. Ayonisomanasikara - Commit something with false information, view or believe. And/or commit something without consideration or wisdom. It's not unusual at all that they only can repeat vitriol. They're just fully into Paratoghosa and Ayonisomanasikara. In addition, last year, some media also created a schism in the Sangha. People here got brainwash yet believe they're patriot. At the same time, believe that those with an opposite party are immoral and enemy of the religion. report abuse
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Muslim leaders: Terrorist, Lowly rated comment [Show]
ML, Lowly rated comment [Show]
Commentators should be ashamed
written by Albert Park , June 24, 2009
The commentators on this article seem to have been mobilised. It is clear that most of them haven't read the article. They just heap personal abuse on the author and rant about Thaksin. I don't blame them for their poor English. However, their inability to do anything other than repeat the vitriol they have been fed or to show any independence of mind suggests that Thailand is indeed in poor shape.
Votes: +14
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truth today, Lowly rated comment [Show]
sad Thai
written by brain , June 24, 2009
In addition, Khun A sad Thais, you tried to teach me to think of the monachy as intitution but when this writer
Votes: -1
was commented in a bad way, you show out and protect him for what ? whereas the institution was being commented in a bad maner, I am not sure what is your reaction, So it is fare if you leave this writer attacked from what he expressed by his though and words, please do not react. This is kind of double standard. report abuse
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written by Pro Iran , June 24, 2009
The most significant inferiority of Thailand compared to Iran, South Korea, China and many so-called democratic countries is that Thai law and court rule could not eradicate activities of corrupted persons from political arena. So, this truth really hinders the path of development.
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sad Thais
written by brain , June 24, 2009
Khun "A Sad Thai" I agree with you and I also care of the institution and my country not a person, but i don't
Votes: -2
think that you care or this writer and the red shirt leader care, Don't lie for your self and open your mind and your mouth if you are brave enough for what you are thinking. I would like you to think of your country as institution ant the nation not a person (Thaksin) as you try to express, Is this fare. report abuse
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Go for it, Khun Pluem
written by Athitaya , June 24, 2009
I like your idea, Khun Pluem.
Votes: +20
Recently, I met my Iranian friend ans we shared some political point of view about what's going on. To me, Iran is "better" than Thailand in term of people are not cut off by powerful hand behind the curtain like in Thailand. Iran movement, some, got support from the west, but in Thailand, no. And for those from Manager and the Nation, just shut the ass in your mouth and go suck yourself. go for it. Khun Pluem. report abuse
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written by A sad Thai... , June 24, 2009
It is your view Khun "Brain" that you do not like the book TKNS. I respect that. And I do realise the country is very sad right now because it is at a crossroad. But things evolve and the world moves on, nothing stands still. Think of monarchy as an institution, not a person, this way you won't have to feel so offended by thoughtful articles that touch the subject.
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A Sad Thailand because of "A Sad Thai", Lowly rated comment [Show]
TOTALLY DISAGREED WITH THIS ARTICLE!, Lowly rated comment [Show]
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written by A sad Thai... , June 24, 2009
After reading comments expressed with anger by some of the Thais here, you can definitely see how successful propaganda can influence Thais to the point that they make comments without using reasons. Even if they disagree with ML Nattakorn, it is more constructive to explain reason rather than using abusive, emotional words to discredit him. Of all the comments, the only one by "Heresy of the most nonsensical kind" sounds reasonable and makes most sense. Anyway, it IS sad to see Thais make comment in such manner in such a well-respected on-line regional news website.
Votes: +11
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Please help Thai poeple free.
written by Thai red mean the Nation. , June 24, 2009
วันนี้ครอบรอบ 77 ปีประเทศไทยเปลี่ยน
Votes: +0
ปลงการปกครอง แต่มันเป็นเหมือนกา คืนอำนาจการปกครอง ปดังเดิม วิถีทางของคนไทยและ ิหร่านแตกต่างกันต งที่ คนไทยมักจะมีความเก งใจมากเกินไป แต่ไม่นานเกินรอ ประเทศไทยต้องมีประ าชนเป็นใหญ่ 6 เดือนผ่านไป นาย ก และรัฐมนตรีโจรปล้น สียงประชาชน ยังไม่มีผลงานและศั ยภาพอะไร เพราะเป็นเพียงหัวโ นให้เผด็จการชักโย เบื้องหลัง report abuse
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ไอ่ทักษิณ มากราบตีนกุซิ, Lowly rated comment [Show]
who the hell r u?, Lowly rated comment [Show]
...., Lowly rated comment [Show]
Only junk boy from USA, Lowly rated comment [Show]
Mr. d i c k h e a d so good english, Lowly rated comment [Show]
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written by Real Demon , June 24, 2009
The logic of readers here, This writer opinion is idiot not because of the opinion itself but because of the author who doesn't support the current government, is interesting and quite similar to some yellow-shirt type motto, He doesn't agree with us so his idea is suck.
Votes: -1
If the reader here is the majority of Thai citizen, it could be concluded that Thai people have this idea in mind and Thailand can not achieve to be the real democracy at all. BTW, I am still optimistic and believe that the level of democracy in Thailand is far above Iran's although Thai army leader and his mastermind still have more power than other fully developed democratic countries. However, I also have doubt in the check and balance system in Thailand especially for the courts and independent institutes. report abuse
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written by Thaksin was the head of police state , June 24, 2009
Thailand became to be the police state when Thaksin was the prime minister.
Votes: -4
So, do you think "the police state is democracy?" report abuse
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homeless child, Lowly rated comment [Show]
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U R Suck !!! ... Idiot GUY !!!, Lowly rated comment [Show]
get the _uck out of Thailand, Lowly rated comment [Show]
Yinyang, Lowly rated comment [Show]
Yinyang, Lowly rated comment [Show]
hate this idiot guy, Lowly rated comment [Show]
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Heresy of the most nonsensical kind, Lowly rated comment [Show]
when will this idiot guy STOP TALKING BULL SH*IT???, Lowly rated comment [Show]
No Brain and Responsibility in His Word, Lowly rated comment [Show]
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Thug-Sin is a monster, Lowly rated comment [Show]
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the stupid writer, Lowly rated comment [Show]
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